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Hi Eric.
My friend David forwarded your message about his page to you. Having been a dedicated CARP member for 6 1/2 years (86-93), I feel I need to respond to you.
---------- Forwarded message -------
note: * = Eric's comments
> my responses
* I know this is an anitcult page, but for what its worth. . . I've been a member of the UC for 21 years, graduated Phi Beta Kappa in English lit while in the church, have 4 wonderful children in Maryland public schools, was president of the local PTA, go to two local churches for the last several years, and have been working professionally the last ten years. This is not a profile of a ``cult'' member in any rational sense, and I am by no means unusual.
>>Comparing you to the rest of church and CARP membership, you apparently ARE among a very few privileged who did not have to go the harsh "course of indemnity" all of us other were required to go, i.e. 3 1/2 years of fundraising and 3 1/2 years of witnessing. Did you ever have to live in a Ford van for 2 years, sleeping 4 to 5 hours a night while driving to the next city, scraping the ice from the INSIDE of the vehicle in the morning, sticking your stinky feet in a McDonald's bathroom sink to wash them because you didn't have a shower for a week, living on a $7 a day budget, not being allowed to go see a doctor except in case of a most urgent medical emergency?
If you didn't, then I feel you don't have any right to say ANYTHING about what the Unfication Church is really like, because you simply DON'T KNOW! You're just like the "blessed children" who get the "special treatment".
Has it ever occurred to you what an incredibly different and discriminating life styles there are within the Unification church, which supposedly practices unconditional love - meaning not attached to conditions of being born in the church, eduction, etc.??? Iused to accept the explanations why Mr. Moon has to own all those estates, a yacht, a nice car, etc. while members are slaving away for no wages and without health insurance - like that otherwise the world wouldn't respect his position - but, you know, other people, like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Jesus never needed such affluence to be accepted and to teach their message - and they certainly did not require it at the expense of their followers!
The reason why people like you are so well off is because Moon rewards those of status and position for following him ..and lending him credibility. You're part of his scheme, his plan to take over the world. He keeps people in influential positions like yours happy by buttering them up, just like religious or political leaders he takes on tours to Korea etc. What people like you probably don't know is that there are hundreds, maybe thousands of dedicated members like myself living on bare minimum, slaving away and working their butts off without ANY benefits just so that Moon can keep up these slick PR moves. And you of course, buy it, because since your experience is so positive (no leader yelling and screaming at you for not accomplishing your goal, your "promise to him", making you fast and take cold showers to repent for your "failing True Parents" in doing so, e.g. by not recruiting 3 fulltime members that month according to the 1-1-1 formula!) - what could possibly be wrong with this nice movement. Wake up, my friend. Check with some older church and especially CARP members what they have experienced, how they have been abused by their leaders, and how the leaders have been themselves abused by Moon. Steven Hassan is just one of those, but of course the church has to discredit people like him, because members like you could find out the TRUTH about the church and Mr. Moon himself!
How would you feel if he really accomlished his goal, made extramarital sex (including sex before marriage) a CAPITAL OFFENSE (I can show you his speech where he proclaimed this!) ...and your nice or daughter DID commit that (in his eyes) heneous crime and was to be executed??? WHAT WOULD YOU DO, MY FRIEND? Would you still agree with "Father"?
*Steve Hassan is living in a fevered time warp.
>>Frankly, he's NOT! I've read his home page and what he's saying is still true and relevant today, no matter how much you'd like to discount it, and I think in the bottom of your heart you know it. If anything, it seems more like the UC is still making you stay in a time warp by holding on to old cliches - in order to scare you away from talking to those "evil, satanic former members" ...who could cause you to regain your critical thinking.
*He doesn't have a clue about how the church has changed since he was forceably deprogrammed 20 years ago after a couple of years in the church.
>>How do you know, Eric? Have you talked to him? Why don't you meet with him to discuss your views rather than backbiting him to someone else? Are you afraid?
As a recently exited member I can testify that it HASN'T changed in the very core of its manipulative, controlling, deceptive nature. I was trained to lie and manipulate JUST AS STEVEN HASSAN was! I was 2 levels below Moon (my leader was state leader and thus in direct contact with Moon very frequently at leaders' meetings etc.) ...and got to experience what the true "heavenly tradition" and "leadership training" is - and believe me, it wasn't just my leader who was abusive! Guess where he learned it! That's right, Moon used to take the leaders out for dinners, buy them suits, love them up ...and then take them back to East Garden to yell and scream at them and beat some of them up for not fulfilling the goals they had pledged to him! (Like enrolling new members by the 1-1-1 formula!) Do you want to deny this? Before you do, you better do some research, friend, and talk to some of the older leaders and ask them if what I'm saying is true. Perhaps you just don't know because you've never been in a "trusted" position close to top leadership?
* He is, I fear, making a living off reviling the church and injuring innocent people. ``Moonie'' is a highly offensive term. It is an invention of an adversarial media, the equivolent of ``nigger'' for blacks.
>>That is so ridiculous, and you know it. Moon used that term for "us members" ALL THE TIME in a loving and joking way. Do I need to show you all the speeches that document this? Are you really that blind? Check Damian Anderson's official UC web page using the search engine and type in the word "Moonie" to see how many DOZENS of times Moon uses the term in a loving way denoting his wife and followers. Come on now!
* I don't object to criticism. I do object to uninformed criticism which, amazingly, is almost all I ever encounter in the mainstream media.
>>It appears to me that YOU are the one who's uninformed. I've seen both sides of the coin. I finally, after 6 1/2 years, did my homework of checking the DP claims and the criticism of those outside the group, the pros and cons. But as long as you desperately cling to your UC paradigm you'll never learn the truth about the movement. But then, you don't really want to, because you're doing ok, I know.
That's how Moon got YOU. For me it was my idealism of really wanting to serve God and change the world.
* There is much to criticize about the UC, but this anit-cult propaganda is useless, unjust and reactionary.
>>Reactionary. Sounds just like a communist propaganda term. Interesting.
And it's not "propaganda" either - it's THE TRUTH, whether you like it or not.
I can testify to that with every FIBER OF MY BEING as a former member who's been there ...just 3 years ago!
(I know, now you'll of course have to find a way to discredit and discount me and my experience as well so that you can justify yourself and the movement. But you know what? Every former member who's truly out of the mind set [i.e. free from the fears that prevented him or her from taking a critical look at the church] can testify to what I'm saying, and to what Steve Hassan is saying. Have you ever sincerely listened to and considered what THEY have to say?)
* I hope you are a consciencious person, Dave, and can see that real people and real lives are involved, not fictional characters who can be imputed with sinister motivations.
>>That's right. Real people are involved - and being deceived. And that's why both Dave and I have up our home pages - to inform the public about the deceptive, manipulative, controlling nature of groups like Scientology and the Unification Church. It makes me really upset when I hear someone like you appeal to the "conscience" ...of people who are speaking out the truth about the Unification Church. But in a way I understand, because I was just like you ...while I was still in the cult mindset, unable to use my critical thinking capacities in realizing what was truly happening to me in the church. Had it not been for the unscrupelous psychological manipulation practiced by the church, it wouldn't have taken me 6 1/2 years to figure out that Moon is a false Messiah and a powerhungry demagogue! But, as the Bible predicts, "Many will come in my name and claim 'Iam he!' and will deceive many, even the elect, if that were possible." [Mat. 24:24]
My page is at:
http://www.trancenet.net/moonism
I hope YOU'RE conscientious and earnest enough to take an honest look at what I and others outside the group have to say about it. Is it possible that there's some truth to what they are saying? We were taught to think "What if it's true (the DP)? What if Mr. Moon is the Messiah?" Interestingly enough we were never taught to think "WHAT IF IT's NOT? What if Moon is NOT the Messiah?"
Doesn't that strike you odd? To find truth we have to look at both sides objectively and weigh both pros and cons. What alternative critical perspective and information was offered to us when we went to the workshops or indoctrination camps, which is what they really are? Did YOU ever check the parallels of history against any history book or the Bible? I HAVE ...since I left. They are complete fabrication! A big stinking LIE!!! Check it out for yourself!
If you are inclined, write me or look into what the church is doing further. Thanks. --Eric
LIKEWISE. Check out MY page to find out some stuff you may not know about what the church is REALLY doing, and that people actually DO leave for legitimate reasons and DO live productive, happy lives thereafter.
I'm getting my master's of education right now, which I was PROHIBITED from doing by my leaders for 6 1/2 years - despite the promise that I'd be allowed to finish my studies. I guess my tough luck was that I was a top fundraiser, recruiter and lecturer.
Take care.
Ingo
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